The rewriting of American history into one of pious founding fathers annoys me to no end... I know the Treaty of Tripoli is largely unknown because of its profound lack of moder impact, but it has some pretty clear evidence for the non-religiosity of the founding fathers.
Thank you Mr. Hitchens, and Chez of course, for not allowing the Christians to rewrite history. When I was a child, in the 70's, we were never taught that the founding fathers were Christians. It never came up. So let's not change history to suit this insanity.
Hitchens is ALWAYS drunk. He looks like he sweats Stella Artois. Wait, no, nothing that classy. Pabst, he sweats Pabst.
Is that title a Tricky reference?
Ding, ding. We have a winner.
Hitchens comes off as such a dick in print, but his British accented, polite but dismissive takedowns are always great to watch!
@Ironic: Be that as it may, Hitchens still sounded about five hundred times smarter than Blackwell. Man, I'd forgotten how dumb Blackwell is. How could he not have those talking points down by now, especially if his wingnut welfare check is coming from the FRC?The best part was when he tried to use Hitchens's intelligence against him. Last refuge of a moron.
Chez, this might be the first time that you and I have posted on the same subject matter (the so-called end of Christian America) on the same day.Hell, it might be the first time we've posted on the same subject matter, ever (Ok, except for Obama related stuff during the primaries and election.)
Today I tried to convince a coworker that a suicide Muslim bomber thinks they are a martyr (or a shahid) when they decide to walk into a building and blow themselves away.The very act of defying one precept of their religion (that of valuing life highly) in order to further the greater cause of the holy war against what are viewed as "infidels" shows to me a very high level of dedication and certainly in the truest sense martyrdom at its pinnacle of definition.My coworker's theory? "It's evil so it's just murder. They want to be martyrs, but since they're not doing something good it's just murder/genocide."Me: *sigh* (Definition-understanding FAIL!)How this ties in to the end of Christian America, as Christopher Hitchins pointed out, is that our enemy believes in their God FAR MORE than we do, to a level that is indeed terrifying in its complete sacrifice and belief.I only think it is pathetically sad that religious people can only think in terms of right and wrong according to their God of choice, and not in terms of "Okay, how or why does this person do or think this?"Religion gets in the way of objective thought, period. There is no question in my mind that anyone who professes to me to be highly religious is also highly retarded and sheep-like in their morality and almost undoubtedly opinionated to the point of absolute frustration.Although I value freedom, sometimes I wish you could deliver electric shock temporarily to people reaching new levels of stupidity.*grumble*
You can almost see Hitchens thinking "I need to be way more drunk for this bullshit!"Hee heee.
I think Mike Myers should play Christopher Hitchens in the movie.
Anon 11:24,Highly religious = highly retarded in ability to think objectively?I'm not saying this doesn't happen frequently, but I dislike these kinds of broad strokes being laid down.I have a high degree of faith in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and yet maintain plenty of objectivity and critical thinking.Perhaps you are speaking of dedication to a religious institution as opposed to a high degree of faith...I don't know.But I would argue I am both highly faithful and have plenty of functioning brain cells and ability to see things from multiple viewpoints.
Anon 11:42People believe whatever easy black/white, right/wrong dogma they want, and then use their social paradigm to define it.In many societies that takes the form of religion. But we've always had boogey men. Before we had Muslims, we had "godless commies", and for their part, the secular Soviets dogmatically hated "Capitalist swine" just as vehemently.I think blaming it all on religion is a red herring. Religion needn't be inherently "good" or "bad" either (in your own way you could potentially be just as guilty as your absolutist co-worker who sees only good/bad because when you look at religion, you are emphasizing only the bad). Religion can be a tool for self discovery, putting the world in context, etc. But like anything, it is people (stupid, idiotic, scared people) not their tools (guns, bibles, money) that are really to blame.
Dang... Blackwell sounds drunk too. Must be using alcohol to balm all that guilt from disenfranchising poor and black voters in Ohio.
It has long been a point of frustration when the Christian Soul Militia reference the "Creator" noun in the Declaration of Independence. The word is open and undefined. It could just as easily refer to parents as to a god, to nature as to a supreme supernatural source. It is meaningless as an argument that U.S. is a Christian nation. Likewise the "religious morals" argument. Ancient Greece would be described as pagan by today's Christians but they began the philosophical non-theological investigation of morality. What an empty bag of rhetorical hucksterism Blackwell and his kind haul around. I particularly enjoy the ebbs and flows argument. Isis was worshiped for seven THOUSAND years, her popularity in flux throughout Greece and Rome. Eventually she bit it. More religions have become extinct than have survived.
My favourite bit of this was the part about "there is a separation of the church and state, but not of faith and politics". Well fuck me if that just isn't plain retarded. It's just mockery of the idea of separation. Saying it exists in idea but not effect. I understand it's rather unavoidable that faith will affect politics as long as politicians are religious, but that is what undermines the separation of church and state.I long for the day when Christianity is no longer "in power".
I'd say Hitchens has at least a 4-martini buzz... But if it were me, I'd be doing the same thing.How unbelievably boring, frustrating, futile, and sadly, pointless it is to do these talking head debates...NO ONE gives him a good argument, he knows what they're going to say, and they can't even say it well. I'd hate it.
Post a Comment